Dialogue Group Notes

On Tuesday, September 2, the dialogue group began its discussion by focusing on the role of anger in the discussions of the dialogue group--constructive or not? One person observed that it was not so much anger but bitterness that was the point of the last week's observation. It was not clear to the group what difference that made as many understood that anger was the feeling at issue. In the short discussion on the topic which followed the view was expressed that, when anger is present, it should be expressed but without violence. Honesty requires that. Several participants understood that, in the case of the history of black Americans, we can understand why they would have experienced many things which would inevitably lead to feelings of anger, whether expressed or not.

The next topic that was brought up by a first-time participant was the responsibility of black Americans not to use racism as an excuse not to take responsibility for themselves. There was a short review of the group's past discussions on the topic of racism and its effects within American culture. Once again the issue of what to do about it came up, and someone asked if this dialogue group could take positions on issues of importance to us. It was explained that dialogue groups have mutual understanding of the points of view persons of diverse background with the hope that increased understanding would lead to greater compassion and acceptance of each other's experience. That itself should lead to increased respect for the other and gradual dissolution of racism. Others felt that in the absence of action racism will always be with us as a society even if some individuals overcome differences and see others as human beings with as much dignity as they have.

Finally the discussion turned to talking about the voting process and the fact that the voting machines used in Georgia cannot produce a "paper trail" and thus are subject to manipulation. There was evidence of vote tampering in the last two elections and the matter has not been resolved since a recount is not possible with no record of the individual vote. There was some fear that this could work against Obama. Our election expert acknowledged that no paper trail is created with the machines used in Georgia, but that is a matter for the State legislature which has prescribed the machines to be used in the state. Electronic voting machines were put in place to avoid the "falling chad" problem in the Florida presidential vote of 2000. But it may have created another problem as bad as the one meant to be solved because of the inability of the machines to create a mechanism for recount of disputed votes.

Although there was considerable interest in this issue, there is really nothing that can be done about that for this election. It was proposed that the group go back to its discussion of our personal reactions to the "Black in America" documentary run by CNN.

We invite anyone in the community who is interested in sharing in our experience to join us at the next meeting of the group on September 9. The Dialogue Group meets in the Museum (the room directly across the large foyer area as you enter the building), located on First Avenue, immediately to the north of the main church (which is on the corner of First Avenue and Eleventh Street) at the far end of a elliptical driveway. There is limited parking in the lot in front of the entrance with more parking on the street. If you need additional information or directions, please contact me.

(Dialogue Group 0703 - 44)

On Tuesday, August 26, the dialogue group held its third discussion centered on issues arising out of the Kenny Walker case. At last Tuesday's meeting two main issues arose out of our dialogue: (1) that the monetary settlement was viewed by many in the white community as a resolution of the issue while the black community generally did not agree; and (2) that the underlying problems had still not been addressed satisfactorily. The main concerns related to the latter issue are that, although some additional training of the police and deputies has taken place, there remains a lack of confidence, particularly among black citizens, in the integrity of the law enforcement process, especially as it relates to the police treatment of black citizens. Secondly, there is a deep feeling among many of the participants that the grand jury process is flawed, resulting in a belief that justice is unlikely to result, particularly when a white officer and a black victim are involved.

Both of these concerns became the topic of discussion in the August 26 dialogue. Almost universally the black participants agreed that the amount of the settlement was very small compared to other settlements that they have heard of which have run into the millions. The discussion\, however, did not focus on that issue. Rather the two concerns noted in (2) above occupied the attention of the group. There was expressed a deep and enduring fear of the police and profound resentment with the manner in which black citizens feel that they are treated by the police. They are often stopped for what they believe is no good reason and during the process are not treated with respect. In fact, they feel that they are treated as criminals and frequently not given a chance to say anything in their own defense.

The discussion turned to talking about the grand jury process and the control over it exercised by the prosecutor. The grand jury does not perform its own investigations but is limited to the evidence which the prosecutor presents to it. The issue of the Public Safety Advisory Board/Review Board came up for much discussion. That led to ideas as to how white citizens can support black citizens in their efforts to address perceived injustices. The meeting ended with an observation by one participant that there was a lot of anger in the group which seemed to make the person feel uncomfortable. The next meeting will begin with a discussion of the role of anger in the discussions of the dialogue group--constructive or not?

We invite anyone in the community who is interested in sharing in our experience to join us at the next meeting of the group on September 2. The Dialogue Group meets in the Museum (the room directly across the large foyer area as you enter the building), located on First Avenue, immediately to the north of the main church (which is on the corner of First Avenue and Eleventh Street) at the far end of a elliptical driveway. There is limited parking in the lot in front of the entrance with more parking on the street. If you need additional information or directions, please contact me.

(Dialogue Group 0703 - 43)

On Tuesday, August 19, the dialogue group held its second discussion on the topic of the Kenny Walker case. There is no summary for the first of these two discussions (August 14). At last Tuesday's meeting two main issues arose out of our dialogue. Some felt that the monetary settlement was a step in the right direction and indicated the willingness of the city and its business leaders to get the issue behind them. On the other hand several participants expressed a fear that the underlying problems had not been addressed satisfactorily. Although some additional training of the police and deputies has taken place, there remains considerable concern that, if similar circumstances arose again, another incident like the Walker case might happen again. There is still, in other words, a lack of confidence in the law enforcement process in the city. Many feel that it is biased against the African-American community.

A second concern expressed was a belief that the grand jury hearing was flawed because all relevant voices had not been heard. This resulted in a feeling of lack of trust that justice had been achieved during the grand jury process. There was a belief that, if the roles had been reversed and the victim had been white, the grand jury might have resulted in a different finding. So, not only is there a lack of confidence in the law enforcement process and its ability to handle a black suspect appropriately, there is a parallel distrust of the judicial system's commitment to assess a situation involving a white officer and a black victim adequately. Both of these concerns left the issue still unresolved in the minds of some of the participants.

We invite anyone in the community who is interested in sharing in our experience to join us at the next meeting of the group on August 26. The Dialogue Group meets in the Museum (the room directly across the large foyer area as you enter the building), located on First Avenue, immediately to the north of the main church (which is on the corner of First Avenue and Eleventh Street) at the far end of a elliptical driveway. There is limited parking in the lot in front of the entrance with more parking on the street. If you need additional information or directions, please contact me.

(Dialogue Group 0703 - 41)

Last dialogue we continued with our discussion based on the CNN documentary on "Black in America." We had a smaller group this week but a very animated discussion. The topic for this week, as you may recall, was the reasons for the over-representation of African-Americans, especially young black males, in our prison system. In preparation for this discussion I had sent out some statistics which reflected some of the numbers. The discussion began with a presentation on the history of black people in America, beginning with slavery and progressing through until today. There was a particular focus on the history of blacks in Columbus, particularly on how things have changed as the black population in and around Columbus has gradually become more urban. Notice was taken that more blacks than whites seem to be arrested; and, of those arrested few blacks can pay bond and thus remain in jail while awaiting trial. One participant observed that it is easier for a judge to sentence someone to prison for a crime if he is already in jail. Several persons observed that the way the prison system works is complicated, and there are no simple explanations for why the numbers are what they are. Some discussion was then held on what can be done to remedy this situation. Education was immediately suggested as an important step. The more educated a person is, the less likely he is to end up in jail. Others then talked about the disincentives for young black men to stay in school. Another suggestion was that whites could become more involved in criminal justice proceedings.

Once again, the observation was put forward that a big disappointment with the CNN series was the almost total focus on the successes of those blacks who have made it and on the mistakes that unsuccessful blacks had made when they were younger. Some were able to escape their background and others were not. But the documentary placed little or no responsibility on what white America can or should do to address this problem. The burden seemed to fall primarily on the shoulders of the black American--to succeed by being smart or to fail as a result of the mistakes made. What seemed remarkable that the blacks seem to have bought into that analysis. The answer to the question that was raised last meeting concerning the documentary's exposition of the disproportionate number of young black men in prison is still incomplete. We will begin next week's dialogue with that question.

As a reminder, we will continue our dialogue group meeting on August 14, next THURSDAY evening, at 6:30. This will be the last time we meet on Thursday. Beginning the following week we will resume our regular meetings on Tuesdays. So the meeting for the week after next will be on Tuesday, August 19, at the same time and place.

We extend a cordial invitation to anyone interested in sharing in our experiment to join us at the next meeting of the group on August 7. The Dialogue Group meets in the Museum (the room directly across the large foyer area as you enter the building), located on First Avenue, immediately to the north of the main church (which is on the corner of First Avenue and Eleventh Street) at the far end of a elliptical driveway. There is limited parking in the lot in front of the entrance with more parking on the street. If you need additional information, please contact me.

(Dialogue Group 0703 - 39)

At our last meeting we began our discussion of the CNN documentary on "Black in America." We had about fifteen participants, almost all of whom had viewed the documentary. The purpose of the discussion was to share our feelings in response to the film. We began with several of our African-American participants describing what they felt the message of the series was and noting that they felt somewhat sad or perhaps even overwhelmed by what Black folks, especially young black men are doing to themselves. At the same time they also related some experiences of their own where they have felt some of the same discrimination that those interviewed in the documentary had gone through. The common experience seemed to be that there are still far too many examples of the continuing existence of racism in the lives of black Americans. The white participants could identify to some degree with these experiences and how it must have felt, although no whites had had similar experiences. Before coming to this dialogue session, the whites who spoke up seemed to have felt that the series was a good report on the present situation of black Americans, even those who have "made it" and on those who still have a ways to go.

The final discussion centered around the fact that the documentary spoke very little about white privilege and laid no responsibility on white Americans to do anything about the current circumstances of blacks in America. The documentary seemed to focus entirely on what blacks needed to do. Just before closing for the evening the question was raised concerning the documentary's exposition of the disproportionate number of young black men in prison. Following some discussion we ended with the question of why this is. We will begin next week's dialogue with that question.

As a reminder, we will continue our dialogue group meetings on THURSDAY evening, at 6:30. We extend a cordial invitation to anyone interested in sharing in our experiment to join us at the next meeting of the group on August 7. The Dialogue Group meets in the Museum (the room directly across the large foyer area as you enter the building), located on First Avenue, immediately to the north of the main church (which is on the corner of First Avenue and Eleventh Street) at the far end of a elliptical driveway. There is limited parking in the lot in front of the entrance with more parking on the street. If you need additional information, please contact me.

(Dialogue Group 0703 - 37)

The First Presbyterian dialogue group (Dialogue Group 0703) continued its discussion on the differences between individuals who described racially-related experiences in their lives. There were three new participants in attendance. The meeting again opened with a brief summary of the last several weeks discussion. One of the participants shared a very moving incident involving sexism compounded by racism. The other participants joined in the dialogue with compassion and respect. Both white and black participants shared additional race-related stories of their own. Several persons raised the issue that the group would like to hear more about the experiences of the white participants. The dialogue continued in private after the meeting ended. A trusting community seems to be developing which even includes those who are relative newcomers to the dialogue. Participants seem to be picking up the spirit of compassionate listening from those who have been with the group for longer. Hopefully all of us who participate will continue to learn of the ways in which racism shows itself even in our time. It is encouraging that people are gradually doing the hard work of moving into personal reflection on the meaning of these shared experiences, not only for the ones relating them but also for those hearing them.

As a reminder, to accommodate the summer schedule of the First Presbyterian Church, we are continuing our dialogue group meetings on THURSDAYS, at 6:30. We extend a cordial invitation to anyone interested in sharing in our experiment to join us at the next meeting of the group on Thursday, July 17. The Dialogue Group meets in the Museum (the room directly across the large foyer area as you enter the building), located on First Avenue, immediately to the north of the main church (which is on the corner of First Avenue and Eleventh Street) at the far end of a elliptical driveway. There is limited parking in the lot in front of the entrance with more parking on the street. If you need additional information, please contact me.

(Dialogue Group 0703 - 35)

The First Presbyterian dialogue group (Dialogue Group 0703-35) continued its animated discussion on the differences between the black (non-white) and white experiences in America once again last Tuesday evening. The meeting began a little around 6:40 and included several new persons. The meeting opened with a summary of the last several weeks discussion on understanding black liberation theology and, subsequently, raising the issue of white privilege. The dialogue then moved on sharing experiences involving race and the impact that it made of those of us who had these experiences. Compassionate listening and respect for what persons decided to share were the keynotes of the dialogue. Both white and black participants shared some of the stories of their own encounters with racism. Questions from the group followed each presentation. All in all the discussion was a good beginning of what is likely to be a very emotional sharing experience. Hopefully all of us who participate will learn something about how others have experienced the effects of racism or the absence of effects within their own lives.

As the short summary above indicates, the dialogue group continues to probe more deeply into each of our own personal reflections as we examine the differences arising out of our diverse worldviews. This is a subject which ought to be of interest to everyone in our community. Our discussion on next Tuesday evening will continue this dialogue. I would again suggest that each of us spend a little time exploring this topic and be prepared to share our findings as well as our personal feelings on the topic.

To accommodate the summer schedule of the First Presbyterian Church, we are going to move our dialogue group meetings to THURSDAY, beginning next week and continuing into August when school reopens. Once again, I extend a cordial invitation to anyone interested in understanding others and our diverse histories or those who have information to contribute to join us at the next meeting of the group on Thursday, July 10, at the First Presbyterian Church. The Dialogue Group meets in the Museum (the room directly across the large foyer area as you enter the building) located on First Avenue, immediately to the north of the main church (which is on the corner of First Avenue and Eleventh Street) at the far end of a circular driveway. There is limited parking in the parking lot in front of the entrance with more parking on the street. If you need additional information, please contact me.

(Dialogue Group 0703 - 34)

The First Presbyterian dialogue group (Dialogue Group 0703 - 34) opened with a dialogue centering on what was our first experience with race. The white participants responded first, followed by a non-white response to the white observations. Then, in turn the non-white participants responded to the same question. There was a clear difference between the responses of the two groups. Most whites stated that their first experiences with race were with black servants. In contrast, while some of the non-white responses referred to their first experience with race was their recognition of the servant relationship of their parents to whites. Others told of experiences which they had had as blacks where they felt discriminated against or worse. Oddly enough, neither whites nor non-whites identified their experience with race in terms of their own self-experience. At the end of the discussion, the group came face to face with the need for each participant (when they are ready to do so) to share his or her race-related experiences with the others. Only in that way will we be able to "walk in the other's shoes." That is the point at which we agreed to begin our next meeting.

We all understand that this will be a challenge. For that reason, the sharing will be completely voluntary.

Once again, I extend a cordial invitation to anyone interested in understanding each other and our diverse histories to join us at the next meeting of the group at 6:30 pm on Tuesday, July 1, at the First Presbyterian Church. The Dialogue Group meets in the Museum (the room directly across the large foyer area as you enter the building) located on First Avenue, immediately to the north of the main church (which is on the corner of First Avenue and Eleventh Street) at the far end of a circular driveway. There is limited parking in the parking lot in front of the entrance with more parking on the street. If you need additional information, please contact me.

(Dialogue Group 0703 - 24)

The First Presbyterian dialogue group (Dialogue Group 0703 - 24) continued its vigorous discussion once again last Tuesday evening. The meeting began a little after 6:30 and included two new persons. The group opened with a couple of participants urging the group to begin thinking about moving into action. Several commenters opined that dialogue is itself an action--an action to more deeply understand each other and the experiences which we have had during our lifetimes and thus grow in compassion. One of the new participants reviewed her experience growing up and noted that, until recently, she had really not understood the pain of growing up black in America. She has started reflecting on the slavery experience, the aftermath of the civil war, the civil rights struggle, and the impact which all of that must have had on non-white Americans. Another participant noted that America is a society based on white supremacy, which was the primary message of Dr. Wright in his sermons and speeches. The Asian perspective on being in America was briefly discussed as well.

As the short summary above indicates, the dialogue group continues to probe deeply into the very personal impacts of our diverse world. This is a subject which ought to be of interest to everyone in our community. Our topic next Tuesday will be whether ours is in fact a society based on white supremacy. I would suggest that each of us spend a little time exploring this topic and be prepared to share your findings as well as your personal feelings on the topic.

Once again, I extend a cordial invitation to anyone interested in understanding each other and our diverse histories or those who have information to contribute to join us at the next meeting of the group on Tuesday, June 3, at the First Presbyterian Church. The Dialogue Group meets in the Museum (the room directly across the large foyer area as you enter the building) located on First Avenue, immediately to the north of the main church (which is on the corner of First Avenue and Eleventh Street) at the far end of a circular driveway. There is limited parking in the parking lot in front of the entrance with more parking on the street. If you need additional information, please contact me.

p.s. Please forgive me if you receive duplicate copies of this e-mail. If there are any errors or corrections needed, please let me know by return e-mail. Thanks.

2007

Notes from the 2007 series of Dialogue Groups

(Dialogue Group 0703 - 4)

We had another good session at our fourth session of the dialogue group meeting at First Presbyterian Church.

Here is a brief summary of the highlights of the meeting. The session began with a brief wrap-up of the Jena 6 discussion of last week. We then turned to a letter to the editor in the Ledger which asserted a "right to hate." A lively discussion of that letter and what it might mean ensued and led to the question as to whether we whites really understand or even notice what a person of color experiences in day to day life. Several of the participants shared experiences which they had had relating to school, shopping and when they had been stopped by the police. Again considerable progress was made in understanding what the non-white experience was, specifically the black experience.

At one point the question was raised as to what we can actually do about this situation of unequal treatment of persons of color. We had a brief discussion of that question. It turned out that the suggestions were general in nature and the group determined that perhaps it is necessary to get a deeper understanding about what one participant identified as "leaving my house each morning as male and black" to get a better idea about what action we personally can take.

The group will meet for the fifth time to continue our discussion of the topic of race related issues in present day Columbus. I hope that you will be able to come and join us for the discussion. We meet at 6:30 in what I will call the fellowship building immediately adjacent to the Church on the north side. Enter from First Avenue, northbound side. There is plenty of parking on First Avenue and limited parking in the small lot in front of the entrance to the fellowship building.

(Dialogue Group 0703 - 3)

At the last meeting of the dialogue group we discussed the directions and format for future meetings. The group seemed inclined to study further the impact of racism on American culture and specifically on the attitudes and experiences of us as Columbus residents. One of the values that we wanted to preserve is the group's ability and willingness to share our personal stories, many of which have been profoundly moving. To that end the proposal was made to combine our study with our personal experiences by having each one of the participants take a turn leading the group discussion and joining his/her area of interest or study with the personal dimension of why and how that area of interest or study has affected his/her outlook.

We will not meet during Advent and the Christmas holidays. Our next meeting will be on January 8 at the same time and place, i.e., at the First Presbyterian meeting hall at 6:30pm. For additional information, please contact me or Frazer Loomis (at floomis@synovustrust.com or by phone at (706) 644-8951).

(Dialogue Group 0703 - 2)

The last meeting of the dialogue group was a discussion of where we will go from here. The participants have decided to remain together as a permanent dialogue group and, consequently, needed to determine the direction in which the group will go in the future. We discussed several possibilities. The goal of the group is to continue to learn more about the differences among us and to cherish those differences. To do that will require our continued exploration of our differences and what they mean; how we experience our differences; and what actions we might engage in to overcome our prejudices. The group felt that by sharing our personal stories we are enabled to experience how others feel and thus develop both a deeper understanding as to where we are in our diversity and greater compassion for others.

Among the possibilities we explored were the following:

1. We could read and discuss relevant books to learn more about racial attitudes 2. We could invite persons in the community to come in and discuss race-related issues with us 3. We could focus on such issues that appear in current articles that appear on the internet or in print 4. We could obtain, watch and discuss pertinent videos 5. We could conduct group visitations to schools, churches, civic or political organizations or other institutions.

None of these are mutually exclusive and the group may wish to implement several or even all of these possibilities.

The next meeting of the dialogue group will be at First Presbyterian on Tuesday, November 27, after a Thanksgiving holiday. We are extending a welcome to all of you and any others whom you may wish to invite. If you wish to come and join us, come to First Presbyterian Church on First Avenue between 12th and 11th. Enter the small cul-de-sac just to the north of the church (the 12th street side). There is limited parking there (otherwise you can use the street for parking). We meet at 6:30 pm and go for an hour. Hope to see you there.