Dialogue Group Notes

Archived Dialogue Group Notes

2010

Dialogue Groups 1002-6

Dialogue Groups 1002-5

Dialogue Groups 1002-3

Dialogue Groups 1002-2

Dialogue Group 1002-1

Dialogue Group 1001-1-2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dialogue Groups

 

 

 

Dialogue Groups are one-hour facilitated sessions of diverse individuals that last at least 5 weeks where individuals from corporations, institutions, and neighborhoods can create sessions for democratic dialogue among themselves toward learning more about one another.

To register as a participant in a Dialogue Group, click here.

For more information about Dialogue Groups and facilitators, click here

We are in the process of adding the notes for each dialogue group, we thank you for your patience. Please check often for the latest updates and additions.

 

2010

Summary of Dialogue Group 10-02-6

 

On Tuesday evening, January 11, the One Columbus Dialogue Group continued its second series of the year with session six on the topic, "Is Education the Solution to Poverty?" Our presenter was Dr. Jose Villavicencio of the College of Education at Columbus State University. He began the discussion with a presentation on what is needed for an effective teaching environment in primary and secondary school. After recognizing that the public educational system in America is largely failing the poor, he sought to discover the reasons for this failure. While the schools are failing, so is the family and the community. For learning to be effective, a strong support system for the student must be in place.

Where is the student to find such a support system? The first and most important place is in the family. For many reasons the families of the poor are often unable to provide the support needed. Dr. Villavicencio then suggested that it is most important that the school, and primarily the teachers have a responsibility to make concentrated efforts to engage the families of poor students in the educational process. This often calls for ingenuity and inventiveness to find effective ways to accomplish this. Some discussion followed regarding the efficacy of the various steps which have been used in the experience of the participants to get the parents of guardians involved. Providing snacks or even dinners seemed to get them to school functions and meetings with teachers, but without food most of the attempts with which the participants were not effective, at least over the long haul.

But, Dr. Villavicencio pointed out, family support is not the only measure that needs to be addressed. There is also to issue of student support from the community. Unfortunately, in poor neighborhoods it is often next to impossible to foster community support. The struggle for survival occupies the attention of the residents as well as fears for their own safety, especially in high crime areas.

Research shows that increased support, either from the family or from the community, does indeed lead to improved performance and greater success in school. Within the family even relatively unsophisticated support is helpful, such as, checking on whether the student has completed assignments or working with the teacher to establish processes like signing off on homework. The community can render support by providing tutoring services or other support activities within or outside of school hours.

Dr. Villavicencio's presentation was followed by a lively discussion as many of the participants were or had been teachers or had spouses who were in the teaching profession. One of the concerns expressed was that the burdens on teachers for bolstering family and community support would seem to be quite large. With this responsibility to motivate families and communities teachers might "burn out" in short order, even if they see this as a proper responsibility.

Dr. Villavicencio acknowledged that schools in this country are geared to the middle or upper middle classes and largely assume that the students have grown up in stimulating family environments. Thus, they have not been successful in creating an environment rich enough to motivate the student who has grown up in poverty. Although not directly discussed in this session, the discussion does tend to indicate that education by itself is not capable of bringing students much less their parents or guardians out of poverty.

The current dialogue group has completed its topic and thus will not meet next week to prepare for the next series. The subject look more deeply into potential solutions for poverty based on steps taken in other countries. Some of these solutions we have looked at during our discussion on health care. We will begin with a review of a portion of the "Second Bill of Rights" address given by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on the occasion of his 1944 State of the Union (selection attached).

The next meeting to begin our discussion of the new dialogue group topic will be Tuesday, Jan. 25. Please bring your ideas and come meet with us. The dialogue group will again meet at the CVEM House at 1120 Lockwood Avenue from 6:30 to 7:30. All are welcome.

 

Summary of Dialogue Group 10-02-5



On Tuesday evening, December 14, the One Columbus Dialogue Group 10-02 continued its series with session five on the topic, "Is Education the Solution to Poverty?" The group met at the mail library in the auditorium as the CVEM House was not available that evening.

The dialogue began with the introduction of our presenter for the evening. Dr. Evelyn Blalock, College of Education professor at C.S.U. on her topic, "Birth to Five: The Link Between School Success and Growing Up Poor." Although after much effort we were unable to get the projector to operate, Dr. Blalock continued with her presentation using a print out of the slides.

She noted that the topic of this series of dialogue groups is, "Education: Is it the Solution to Poverty," and immediately proposed that the answer to that question is "NO." Dr. Blalock first reviewed several statistics, including the fact that 43% of all of the children in the United States live in poverty. That figure astonished most of the persons in attendance at the session. She then pointed out that studies show that the most reliable predictor of childhood failure in school is poverty. Additionally, she said, an "achievement gap" begins early in the educational process between poor children and those who grow up with a measure of affluence.

The data further indicate that a significant number of children entering school for the first time (37%) are unprepared to learn, that is they do not have the skills necessary to learn effectively or even to meet the minimum expectations for beginning students. An achievement gap between students from poverty and other students starts building immediately upon entering school. Sadly, of the children who have trouble reading in kindergarten, 44 out of 50 will still be having trouble in the third grade. This pattern tends to repeat itself throughout their school careers. As Dr. Blalock puts it, "Kids who start school behind, stay behind." This lagging behind pattern seems to be traceable primarily to the poverty milieu of these children. Indeed, almost half of the children who come from low-income communities begin primary school as much as two years behind their classmates.

Other disturbing statistics show that nationwide approximately 10 million children experience difficulty learning to read. Of these some 10 to 15 per cent will drop out of school before graduation from high school. When we look at persons in prison, we find that one-half of them have reading problems and, of those with substance abuse issues, one-half have difficulty reading.

What are some of the major elements in poverty surroundings which militate against learning to read? In average socio-economic settings (SES)children are exposed to around 1200 words an hour with exposures in college-educated settings of 2100 words per hour. In low SES (poverty) children are exposed to only 600 words per hour. Children from average SES hear 22 million words addressed directly to them by age 3; in low SES they will only hear 12 million such words. This same pattern of verbal exposures is reflected in many other common settings in which children find themselves.

As a result the vocabulary of their average SES classmates is twice as extensive as the vocabulary of the lower SES students in the first grade! Studies have found that book reading is significantly lower for low SES children with 61% having no age-appropriate books at all in their homes.

Dr. Blalock maintains in closing her presentation that this situation is preventable. Changes in the home are possible. Reading is improved by several factors which can be identified. Some examples are more reading at home, teaching the sounds of the different letters in the alphabet and the like. The presentation was followed by a question and answer period. One of the key questions raised was how to accomplish these changes while still in poverty?

I am attaching the slides that Dr. Blalock distributed to the participants plus a flyer on a program to promote early reading for children before kindergarten. The program is co-sponsored by C.S.U. and Enrichment Services Program. I commend it to anyone who wishes to assist in supporting this program.

The current series of dialogues ends with this session. The next meeting of the dialogue group will be on Tuesday, Jan. 11, from 6:30 to 7:30 back at the CVEM House at 1120 Lockwood Avenue. We will begin a new series on that date which will be announced via e-mail at the beginning of January. I look forward to embarking on a new adventure in dialogue with you at that time.

 

 

Notes from the 2010 series of Dialogue Groups

Summary of Dialogue Group 10-02-3

 

On Tuesday evening, November 30, the One Columbus Dialogue Group 10-02 continued its second series of the year with session three on the topic, "Is Education the Solution to Poverty?" After a Thanksgiving holiday, we again met at the CVEM House on Lockwood Avenue on a rainy evening. The number of participants remained at a good level with the participation of three persons who had not previously been with us during this series.

We began the discussion with a summary of the previous sessions' discussions to bring the new participants up to date, including a reminder of our understanding of poverty as "lacking the wherewithal to purchase the things necessary for living in dignity--things such as adequate food and clear water, decent housing, sufficient clothing to protect oneself from the elements and the like.

The discussion then picked up at the point where our last session ended, namely, that the dialogue group participants had generally concluded that the educational system in the United States has largely failed those citizens who come from poverty. This conclusion appeared to indicate the group consensus that education (understood as formal education conducted by local school systems) by itself is not capable of bringing students, much less their parents or guardians, out of poverty. Elimination of poverty or even the rise of an individual out of poverty is much more complicated and admits of no single solution. The participants certainly did not intend to mean that education has no value but rather that it is not the "key" to getting out of poverty which it is often asserted to be.

The discussion last time had ended with a question--"Why has the educational system in the United States failed so badly in addressing the issue of poverty, particularly with respect to those students who come to the school from a background of poverty? Why does a country which can send people to the moon not overcome this fundamental challenge?"

The dialogue group on Tuesday evening picked up at this point with a large variety of opinions on the defects of the educational system in the United States, including parental/guardian failures of various kinds, loss of discipline, over-emphasis on punishment in the schools, particularly toward the "misbehavior" of Afro-American male students, lack of motivation to learn on the part of the students, absence of support from the family or the community, lack of self-discipline, inappropriate dress, adverse peer pressure, and the like. It was difficult for the participants to stay focused on the function of education during the discussion due to the high level of concern within the group regarding social or cultural issues which appear to militate against student success in school. The question raised in the last session, consequently, was not directly addressed. That question, however, was somewhat reformulated to a different question, namely, "Is the failure of education with regard to the poor student primarily the fault of the student and his/her environment or of the school system?"

The next meeting will be on Tuesday, Dec. 7. We will continue the discussion of education and poverty. Please bring your ideas and come meet with us. The dialogue group will again meet at the CVEM House at 1120 Lockwood Avenue from 6:30 to 7:30. All are welcome.
 

Summary of Dialogue Group 10-02-2

 

On Tuesday evening, November 16, the One Columbus Dialogue Group continued its second series of the year with session two on the topic, "Is Education the Solution to Poverty?" Our presenter was Dr. Jose Villavicencio of the College of Education at Columbus State University. He began the discussion with an overview of poverty. Poverty is often a concept subjective in nature meaning different things to different persons. Dr. Villavicencio put the question to the participants for their definition or description of what each one believed was the meaning of "poverty." After a variety of proposals a general consensus emerged that povery means "lacking the wherewithall to purchase the things necessary for living in dignity--things such as adequate food and clear water, decent housing, sufficient clothing to protect oneself from the elements and the like.

Dr. Villavicencio then distinguished among several types of poverty:
a) situational poverty--poverty (often temporary) which comes about because of a particular situation, such as a large medical bill or a business failure.
b) generational poverty--poverty which has existed in a family for at least two generations and tends to be permanent.
c) absolute poverty--poverty which is so grave as make it impossible for a person to survive and which ultimately leads to severe malnutrition and death, particularly among the young and the old.
d) relative poverty--poverty which is on the lowest end of the economic scale in one's own social environment.

After having explained these concepts Dr. Villavicencio turned to some of the effects of poverty, so called risk factors. One is that the support systems within a poor person's close relationships deteriorate and cannot assist the person to grow and mature. A second effect is that the poor person is surrounded by greater chaos and confusion in his or her daily living environment. A third is that life becomes more and more simply a struggle to survive. From a life skills perspective another effect is the inability to develop one's intellectual talents and thus demonstrates a lower Intelligence Quotient. Such a person is also much less effective at solving problems which inevitably come up in the course of living one's daily life. Thus he or she is likely to be subjected to increased violence on the one hand and to attempt to solve problems with the use of violence.

Turning to education, poverty tends to lower one's ability to learn, partly because of the chaos in the student's life, partly because of the lack of support at home, partly because of the depression that tend to result from a lack of self-esteem, partly from a depreciation of the value of education based on the poor persons own experience of the ineffectiveness of education among his peers and often among his elders. As a consequence of the lack of education the poor tend to pass on the "culture of poverty." Oftentimes the poor do not have the means to succeed in school largely because the school systems in this country are ill-equipped to deal with students from poverty backgrounds and often address these students with discipline rather than support.

While there obviously have been individual examples of students in poverty taking advantage of the support offered to them, by and large the educational system in the United States have failed these students. Statistics clearly demonstrate this fact. Some have pointed out that, in general, schools in this country are geared to middle class "culture" and more highly motivated students who have grown up in stimulating family environments.
The schools have not been successful in creating an environment rich enough to motivate the student who has grown up in poverty.

In the discussion that followed, the participants generally concluded that the educational system in the United States has failed those citizens who have come from poverty. This conclusion tends to indicate that education by itself is not capable of bringing students much less their parents or guardians out of poverty. The discussion ended with a question--"Why has the educational system in the United States failed so badly in addressing the issue of poverty, particularly with respect to those students who come to the school from a background of poverty? Why can a country who can send a person to the moon not overcome this fundamental challenge?

The dialogue group will not meet next week because of the Thanksgiving holiday. The next meeting will be on Tuesday, Nov. 30. We will continue the discussion of education and poverty with a continuation of our discussion stimulated by the presentation given by Dr. Jose Villavicencio. Please bring your ideas and come meet with us. The dialogue group will again meet at the CVEM House at 1120 Lockwood Avenue from 6:30 to 7:30. All are welcome.
 

Summary of Dialogue Group 10-02-1

On Tuesday evening, November 9, the One Columbus Dialogue Group began its second series of the year with session one of the topic, "Is Education the Solution to Poverty?" Our presenter was Dr. John Studstill of the Sociology Department at Columbus State University. He began the discussion with a handout with a chart depicting the enormous and increasing difference between the income of the super-rich and the rest of the U.S. population with particular reference to the disparity between the lowest quintile of the population and the highest quintile. That was followed by a brief look at an op-ed article from the New York Times by Bob Herbert. That article was based on a recent book authored by a pair of university political scientists who argued that "the economic well-being of ordinary Americans" is due primarily to "policy changes in government that overwhelmingly favor the very rich."

Professor Studstill next developed an outline of his position that it is, at best, an oversimplification that education is the way out of poverty. The class structure, poverty wages, and lack of jobs at the bottom, are what create poverty in the first place; poverty causes low education, not the other way around. Since poor education doesn't cause poverty, better education cannot alleviate it. If we eliminated poverty by paying decent wages at the low end of the scale, the children of the lower middle class which would be thus created could be more easily educated. THIS would improve the quality of life for us all.

It is a false and elitist idea that lack of education causes poverty; in truth low or no wages cause poverty. This seems evident so why can't we see it? Because the ideology that we can all become rich and our need to blame the victim and not ourselves, blinds us to the evidence that is right in front of us. No amount of education will justify higher wages if the elite don't want to pay them but instead want to keep their own excessive share of the nation's wealth. Besides, low levels of education do not prevent the rich from paying at least a living wage to their workers if they wanted to or if elected governments decided to require them to do so.

This argument is not about paying everyone the same wage; it is about paying decent (living) wages for decent work, which in the U.S. today should be at least $20 an hour. If employers did that, the U.S. would be like Sweden or Germany or Switzerland or Japan--nations where today there is virtually no poverty. That is probably the best kept secret in the world today--best kept, at least, from the U.S. public. It is thus intentional to continually brain-wash our electorate to believe that ours is the greatest and most prosperous nation in history and at the same time convince them that poverty is inevitable and that poverty is the fault of the poor.

Moreover, the overall educational level in those more egalitarian nations is also superior to our own, but that came about AFTER they changed the income structure, not before. So again, what is the biggest difference between the U.S and its economic peers? They pay $20 an hour for the work that we pay $7 for. This lower wage simply creates a new form of servitude since it brings an income of $14,000 a year per person, when the poverty level has been recognized by the U.S. government as around $20,000 a year. Is it any surprise that the U.S. is ranked as the most unequal, exploitative, and unhealthy of all modern industrialized nations? As a not irrelevant aside, the U.S. is also the most undemocratic of those nations since it is mainly the rich who elect our rulers.

The 20th century began with the U.S. at the top of the heap on these quality-of-life comparisons, but the election of more representative governments together with strong labor unions in Europe and Japan have carried them to the economic forefront. While the U.S. currently has the greatest total wealth of any nation in the world, this nation has the worst distribution of wealth with lower income per capita and a lower standard of living for its citizens.

How do these countries afford their prosperity in the face of such attention to the common good of their citizens? Their systems are maintained, not by higher taxes on the middle classes, but by higher taxes on the wealthy elite. Consequently, those at the bottom of the economic pyramid have higher income and the extraordinary disparity of income found in this country among the classes is significantly reduced.

All this must be understood to see why more investment in education will not solve the problem of poverty in the U.S. In fact, educational investment alone in poverty-stricken children and their communities is a waste of money and effort; poverty-stricken communities will destroy lives, schools, communities and teachers. Numerous studies and research have demonstrated this.

In summary, Professor Studstill argues that the poor are poor, not because of a lack of education but because they either do not have any income at all or at least a sufficient income to live a decent life. This lack of income can be traced to systemic or structural elements built into our (white) society. Certainly, a lack of education is not a benefit to the poor, nor are they likely to escape from poverty without an education. But that is not the same thing as saying that education is the key to getting out of poverty.

Much animated discussion followed reflecting a variety of viewpoints, including those which differed from the viewpoint summarized above. Some pointed to cases where individuals have escaped from poverty and suggested that education got them there. However, such cases cannot be proved to have been the consequence of education as opposed to support of others outside the community. Statistics show that today education itself is failing the poor. Much of this is due to the fact that just over a generation ago education was not available on an equal basis for all Americans. That situation and its consequences persist even today in spite of progress made over the last forty years.
In particular, to say without qualification that "education is the key" is to overlook the obstacles that are faced every day by the poor. Growing up in poverty is itself a sociological impediment to education, even if the best educational system were offered. As suggested earlier in the discussion summary, not to recognize this is essentially to say that the failure to rise out of poverty is the fault of the victim and, thereby, to excuse the larger society from any responsibility.

Next Tuesday, Nov. 16, we will continue the discussion of education and poverty with a presentation to be given by Dr. Jose Villavicencio of the CSU College of Education. The dialogue group will again meet at the CVEM House at 1120 Lockwood Avenue from 6:30 to 7:30. All are welcome.
 

 

Summary of Dialogue Group 1002-1



On the evening of September 21, the new One Columbus Dialogue Group met for its second session at the Chattahoochee Valley Episcopal Ministry (CVEM) house in Midtown, located at 1120 Lockwood Avenue, from 6:30 to nearly 8:30. The presenter for the, again, was Dr. John Studstill, an anthropologist with the CSU sociology department.

Our second session addressed this question: "Why not divide people into different races?" That question was explored by means of "The Difference Between Us," the first hour of a three part PBS video series entitled "Race: The Power of an Illusion." This episode demonstrates that, despite what many of us have always believed, the world's peoples cannot be separated into distinct biological groups. The film began by following a dozen students, including U.S. African athletes and U.S. Asian string players, as they compared their own DNA to see who is more genetically similar. Surprisingly, the students found that their closest genetic matches were often people from other "races" than their own. Through their own studies, the students discovered what science has discovered, viz., that human beings cannot be subdivided into races or subspecies, and there is not a single characteristic or trait - or even one gene - that can be used to distinguish all members of one race from all members of another.


The video went on to explain that all modern humans emerged in Africa about 150,000 to 200,000 years ago. Bands of humans gradually began to migrate out of Africa about 70,000 years ago. As they spread across the globe, different bands bumped into one another and mated with a consequent mingling of genes. Consequently, there are no separate races or subspecies within homo sapiens; instead, we all generally share the same genes with slight genetic variations among individuals.


So what about the obvious physical differences we see among people? The video pointed out that a closer look will help us understand patterns of human variation:


• If we were to take a "walk" from the equator to northern Europe, we would see that visual characteristics vary gradually and continuously from one population to the next. There are no boundaries, so how can we draw a line between where one race ends and another begins?
• We also learn that most traits - whether skin color, hair texture, blood group, mental capacity - are influenced by different genes which are passed down independently from one another. Having one trait does not imply the possession of any other. Thus, racial profiling is as inaccurate and as invalid on the genetic level as it is on our city streets.
• We also learn that many of the characteristics we can see, like different skin colors, appear to have evolved recently, after we left Africa, but the traits we care about - intelligence, musical ability, physical aptitude - are much older, and thus common to all populations. Geneticists have discovered that 85% of all of the existing genetic variations can be found within any given local population, whatever its "race." Skin color really is only skin deep. Beneath the skin, we are one of the most similar of all species.


While it is clear that a few gene forms are more common in some populations than others, such as those controlling skin color and certain inherited diseases like Tay Sachs and sickle cell. But these are not markers of "race"; rather they reflect ancestral heritage which is not the same thing as race. The mutation that causes sickle cell, for example, was passed on because it conferred resistance to malaria. It is found among people whose ancestors came from parts of the world where malaria was common: central and western Africa, Turkey, India, Greece, Sicily and even Portugal - but not southern Africa.

In the United States there is a long history of searching for innate differences to "explain" disparities in group outcomes - not just for inherited diseases, but also for differences in SAT scores and in athletic performance. In contrast to today's myth of innate Black athletic superiority, a hundred years ago many U.S. Euros felt that people with "black" skin were inherently sickly and that the whole "race" was destined to die out. That myth was justified because of the observation that disease and mortality rates were high among U.S. Afros, whereas the actual cause was poor health care as a result of poverty and "Jim Crow" segregation. For the dominant culture, however, it was less threatening for most people to believe it was a result of "natural" infirmity, a view popularized by an influential 19th century statistician named Frederick Hoffman in his 1896 study, Race Traits and Tendencies of the American Negro.


Racial beliefs have always been used to support social ideas and policies. After all, it is said, if differences between groups are natural, then nothing can or should be done to correct for unequal outcomes. Scientific literature of the late 19th and early 20th century explicitly championed such a view, and many prominent scientists devoted countless hours to documenting racial differences and promoting a natural hierarchy among human beings.


Although today such ideas are theoretically outmoded and socially out of favor, the belief in innate racial traits still remains popular rather than looking elsewhere for an explanation of group differences. Are the "racial" myths and stereotypes really true on a biological level? If not, why do we continue to believe them? Race may not be biological, but it is still a powerful social idea with real consequences for people's lives. Next week we will look into the history of "race" and what purposes it may have served.



Summary of Dialogue Group DG1001-4


On Tuesday, February 2, the First Presbyterian/One Columbus Dialogue Group continued its discussion of the "White Experience of Race" at the Church Museum. This week the group decided to focus its discussion on a recent series of articles published in the Ledger-Enquirer on the decision of the school board relating to handling students who wish to transfer from "Needs Improvement" (NI) schools to better performing schools in the Muscogee County School District. There are only two such schools, viz., Hardaway and Northside. The dialogue centered on the two articles which had been published by the time of the meeting. The consensus of the participants from the beginning seemed to be that the school board's plan was fundamentally racist and may even have been designed to discourage parents from transferring their students from "failing" schools to "better" schools. The participants debated long and hard to try and identify what would be improved for the students under this proposed plan. All recognized, of course, that the "No Child Left Behind" (NCLB) law recognized the right of any student in a "needs improvement" school to transfer to another school where the test scores demonstrated "adequate yearly progress" in that school.

The consensus of the group was that it seemed quite odd that the "annex" classrooms would not be located on the campuses of the schools to which they belonged but rather on another campus. The annex for Hardaway would be located at Jordan (a NI school) while the annex for Northside would be located at Kendrick (also a NI school). All recognized the already overcrowded situation at both Hardaway and Northside which seems to provide the rationale for the currently proposed solution of locating the annexes at less crowded schools. This solution, however, places a burden on both the students who will not really be a part of the school which they are attending and the teachers who will have to travel to another school to teach their school's students. In addition, several of the participants observed, none of the students would have to be integrated into the student population of the target schools. No one need be upset except perhaps the parents and their transferring students.

The further fact that everything depends on an "adequate" number of transfers presents yet another complication. Apparently, students (and their parents) will only be able to exercise their right to attend a "successful" school if there is an adequate number of students who wish to transfer. Participation in extra-curricular activities seems to be governed by the same "rule." Busing is promised for such extra-curricular activities (band, athletics, etc.) but only if there is a sufficient number of students who wish to participate in such activities. Otherwise, it seems, busing will not be available.

The group judged all of this as placing a definite damper on any parent's or student's motivation to exercise the right to change schools for presumed educational improvement as intended by the law. Indeed, as already mentioned, the suspicion of the group was that this might well be the purpose of this rather convoluted system conceived by the school board.

Of course, the group noted that this whole problem resulted from the egregious failure of the Muscogee County School District and the School Board to address and plan for the many problems that a number of our participants felt have been on the horizon for a long time. Although no one expressed the opinion that this problem was unique to this county's school system, we did recognize that the county's schools have gradually become re-segregated with all of the five NI high schools being over 90% black. The school populations in those schools are the result of a policy decision to go with neighborhood schools in the face of segregated and predominately poor neighborhoods. All other things being equal, such schools generally do not have the resources of schools in wealthier neighborhoods or in neighborhoods which hold a higher percentage of white students. Of course, this dialogue group has long recognized that housing patterns in Columbus are the heritage of past segregation; and, while the law prohibits such segregation now, little to nothing has been done to enable the victims of those patterns to escape their consequences. From the condition of the schools in the neighborhoods suffering from those patterns of the past (which continue into the present), it appeared to us that the educational system has also failed to provide an escape.

Finally, the discussion was more divided when the placing of more specific blame for school failure was raised. The group was divided almost evenly among holding teachers, parents or the students themselves primarily responsible. No one explicitly faulted the NCLB process itself for these failures (as mentioned earlier). All of the participants recognized a systemic failure at some level of the educational system.

The next dialogue group meeting will be held on Tuesday evening, February 9, from 6:30 to 7:30 pm in the First Presbyterian Church Museum. The Museum is the room up the ramp and across the foyer area as you enter the fellowship building, located on First Avenue, immediately to the north of the main church (toward 12th Street). There is limited parking in the lot in front of the entrance with more parking on the street. Everyone with an interest in the subject matter is welcome and encouraged to join us. I hope to see you there.